topic Re: Soundbars? in Android TV

Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:31:15 GMT

Any idea about a low-mid range soundbar for my 49XD8099 (Android 7.0)? Around £150-200. I have been checking few reviews and it seems the winner is the Panasonic SC-HTB485EGK (link). I care mostly about the dialogues clarity and some surrond effects.

Please consider that I already have a (very) old Home Theatre 5.1, which I use with a digital/analogue converter. I mean, it's far from being good, but I like the (virtual at this point) surround effect it produces, so I wouldn't like to waste money on something that improves one side but makes it worse on another.

Also, what I am really concerned about is the ability to use only the tv remote (I know that via ARC and Bravia sync it shouldn't be an issue). High volume isn't required, instead it must be good at low volumes.

Did anyone try the Panasonic mentioned above? Any other suggestion?

Re: Soundbars?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:23:51 GMT

Hi there

I cant help you on the Panasonic soundbar as I dont know anything about it. However I have an alternative suggestion.

Considering that you are in the market for a soundbar and that your HT 5.1 system is (very) old - have you considered maybe saving up a little bit of money and looking at an AV Receiver + Speakers? Might give you more expandability options for a later date?

Cheers

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:38:00 GMT

Yeah, that is the other option, indeed. I am not very sure about these soundbars. I mean, I nver really tested one so I don't know. Then I see that some cost even more one thousand pounds. How can they be better than a decent Dolby 7.1 amplifier? I am not an expert on this topic, but it doesn't take much to undrstand that 5 or 7 speakers positioned on the 4 angles of the room must give a better surrond/realism than 2 on the front.

Re: Soundbars?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:54:55 GMT

This particular soundbar - HT-ST5000

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/sound-bars/ht-st5000

I listened to at the begining of the year (although it wasnt quite finished product I think). The sound was simply amazing. Dolby Atmos from a soundbar. And very loud too. But for the price - my preference is certainly an AV Receiver + Speakers.

I suppose soundbars give people options other than a full-blown AV Audio system. Cleaner - in regards to no cables etc.

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 12:15:03 GMT

Yeah, I've read about that sound "reflection" technology. But I am not very confident it is the same of having two speakers on the back. And sure I agree, wires in the middle of the floor (my solution for the back speakers) are a PITA. Apart that I don't know, shouldn't Bluetooth be capable enough of high quality audio in one speaker? One still needs to power them up, but the wires would be in the floor "corners", not in the middle.

Still, that's why I was thinking about a (cheap) soundbar. My first concern is to improve as much as possible the audio compared to the tv's. The surround I currently have now isn't realistic at all, so I can compromise and lose it for a better audio and a virtual dolby. But I need to test it out first, if Iorder one and don't like the sound (and that's quite likely) I would give it back. And I want to avoid the hassle.

Re: Soundbars?

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 12:40:22 GMT

The audio reflection (or bounce) only works on enclosed rooms like in the home. If you have large open areas like a large conference room - it doesnt work too well.

Some HT systems have a wireless rear base unit on which the rear speakers connect via wires to it and then the audio is wirelessly transmitted to the central control unit that connects to the TV - eliminating the use of some wires.

But at the end of the day, even a cheap soundbar is going to be a big improvement over the quality of the audio that comes from the TVs internal speakers.

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 12:40:10 GMT

Well sure. Bigger the room, and/or higher the ceiling, and more dispersive is the bouncing effect. Actually what I am more concerned about is what happens when there aren't perfectly flat bouncing surfaces, also with hanging lamps in the middle (obviously my situation). Well, not that it really matters, since that's not the solution I am looking for.

So in your experience any soundbar, even the ones under 100 (GBP, USD, EUR. Pick one!), have a better audio than the tv speakers? Again, I must test them. If with 70€ I get about the same result spending 200€ (just with much less power output, that I don't need) I don't see why waste the extra money

Then I may be naive, but being speakers a veeery old technology, I thought that in the third millenium a good, even great speaker would have costed only few dollars to produce. How can they justify hundreds of pounds for some speakers? Are they using diamonds (sarcasm)?

Re: Soundbars?

royabrown — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 12:20:46 GMT

Wharfedale are....

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=wharfedale+diamond

But you can spend what you like on a soundbar. Though don't buy below €100, as they don't sound good down at that price.

Speakers are one of the holdouts from the old days - you can't fight physics, and good bass means moving a lot of air, out in a room, so you either need a big cabinet and a big cone, or a smaller cone with a massive excursion. New and powerful magnets, and more rigid cone materials make this possible, but these aren't cheap.

The main advance(?) today is relying on the human ear being hardly directional at all for bass, so instead of two big identical speakers, you have two small ones for midrange and treble, and a single subwoofer as your ears don't care where the bass is coming from. Even in an explosion, directionality comes from what the smaller speakers are doing.

A soundbar, then, gives you a small left, right, and centre speaker (best for dialogue).

I have a Yamaha YSP-2500 (now replaced by the 2700) which has an array of 16 speakers inside it; you plug in a little microphone that comes with it, on a cardboard pyramid, place that where you would normally listen from, start the calibration mode that comes up when you plug this mic in, and then leave the room. It boops and beeps to itself for three minutes, after which it has analysed your room (including any hanging lamps!) and sets its 16 speakers to give the best Surround effect it can.

it can't quite get right behind you - nothing without actual rear speakers can - but it can certainly put sound out to maybe 200 degrees, so certainly slightly behind you.

Sure you can get an amp and 7 speakers for not much more money, but if I fill our lounge with speakers, my wife will want her suitcases down from the loft. This is a major reason soundbars are popular 🙂

Re: Soundbars?

Anonymous — Sat, 01 Jul 2017 16:28:28 GMT

@royabrown wrote:

Sure you can get an amp and 7 speakers for not much more money, but if I fill our lounge with speakers, my wife will want her suitcases down from the loft. This is a major reason soundbars are popular 🙂

Lesson to be learned here - DON'T get a wife. Then you can do whatever you bloody want.

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Sun, 02 Jul 2017 09:31:49 GMT

Quinnicus wrote:

Lesson to be learned here - DON'T get a wife. Then you can do whatever you bloody want.

lol. Or get a wife who is also a gamer! I had a gf like that. Sure she never complained about few wires and speakers around the flat. Still keeping the (very tiny) place tidy, otherwise I would have bee the one complaining (hey! that was the deal: I was paying for everything she just had to clean once in a while. Nothing sexist about it. ). But she was crazier than me!!

Anyway, thanks @royabrown. That has been quite instructive! I didn't know the speakers were self regulating. Do they have a motor to change position?

Re: Soundbars?

royabrown — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:12:02 GMT

as soon as you can figure out what you want to do (Fritz the Cat (c) R Crumb)

Re: Soundbars?

royabrown — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:11:30 GMT

I don't think anything inside actually moves.

I reckon all those little speakers must be pre-angled at various degrees, the calibration works out what arrives from where, given the shape of your room, your furniture and your soft furnishings, and then directs various elements in the sound stage to the speaker(s) best placed to reproduce that all around you. (Or as far round as it can get, at least).

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Sat, 08 Jul 2017 07:17:19 GMT

Yeah, I am not really sure how the sound "direction" from the speakers works at this point. I never followed much the HiFi scenario.

Anyway, I went to check few soundbars, yesterday. I tested the Sony CT 790 and it was just.. awful. Distortions all over, a metallic sound. I don't know if it was because it has been on esposition for very long (the touch buttons were quite consumed, dirty) or because it was on the floor among many other tvs playing. And why is it so long anyway? It's probably longer that my 49" tv! Then I checked a couple of others. A very cheap Panasonic (and it actually sounded quite well. For sure fot that price!), the Bose Solo 5 (not impressed), a Sony CT 290 (which actually sounded quite clean) and Yamaha ATS 1050 (quite bad) in another shop. In the first shop we also tried the Yamaha YTS 306 with and w/o sub woofer. In both cases a totally different planet from the others. Obviously with the sub adding much more to the total sound.

So I checked in Amazon the YAS 306 and it is 40€ cheaper (still €329, though). While checking around I ended up on this: Yamaha YHT-1840 Kit Home Cinema 5.1. Which really looks much more like what I was looking for. I mean, even in terms of space I don;t have space for a long soundbar but I do have space for a bulky amplifier. It is year 2017 with no reviews in Amazon (or Google), yet.

Any idea how good it can be? I mean, it's Yamaha, last model. One thing I don't understand is why the Home Theaters use speakers with the two wires(the crapo one I currently have does the same) while to add a subwoofer in a soundbar they want the coaxial cable. Is it much worse quality? Can the speaker one day be replaced by much better ones?

Re: Soundbars?

Anonymous — Sat, 08 Jul 2017 10:21:00 GMT

Hi there

The YHT-1840 kit, looks like a basic AV Receiver and speaker package. So I would say yes the speakers/sub could be replaced at a later date as long as it is within the specs of the AV Receiver.

In regards to the Sub-Pre out port, this is for a powered subwoofer only (Active Sub). The two wire would be for a 'passive sub'

Cheers

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Sun, 09 Jul 2017 09:45:16 GMT

All right. Thanks. Also I have seen some user reviews for the previous model (1810) and for that price they all speak well of it. I mean, it sure can't be worse than my current HT connected via optical through an optical/analog converter! And even there is does a much better job than the tv speakers (not at low volumes, though. The dialogues get covered by the sub woofer. That's my pain)...

Re: Soundbars?

Jecht_Sin — Tue, 22 Aug 2017 14:42:06 GMT

There is this new soundbar, Yamaha YAS 207 with HDMI ARC and DTS: Virtual X for about 300€ that is very tempting. The problem is that it doesn't seem to have an IR repeater. The soundbar is 60 mm tall. Which seems to be the same space between the table and the white led on my 49XD8099 (near where the TV IR receiver is located, I believe). Actually even higher (it's about 5 cm from the frame to the table).

It is going to obstruct the already weak and painful IR signal from the remote? Anyone had bad experiences in this sense? Or the IR signal bounces through no matter what?

PS: Where exactly is the IR sensor on my television?! I can't see it anywhere.

Re: Soundbars?

vick18 — Sat, 26 Aug 2017 11:27:10 GMT

@royabrown wrote:

Sure you can get an amp and 7 speakers for not much more money, but if I fill our lounge with speakers, my wife will want her suitcases down from the loft. This is a major reason soundbars are popular 🙂

WRONG-... "my wife will want MY suitecases down from the loft"

u're welcome