topic Re: 55XE9005 and HDR in Android TV

55XE9005 and HDR

fredwerk — Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:42:41 GMT

Hi,

So I have a 55XE9005 TV (4K and HDR) and I am wondering how to test if HDR is working? Does it have YouTube HDR app in the Android TV system (and yes I have updated everything)? I tried on of the HDR videos in the HDR channel and it doesn't seem to show in HDR. How do I know when the TV kicks in HDR mode?

Thanks,

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Anonymous — Sun, 25 Jun 2017 16:58:21 GMT

Hi there

As I understand it, HDR on YouTube will be activated on a future firmware update. However you can test HDR via downloading a test video and playing back via USB.

See:

http://hdrsamples.com/

http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr

Cheers

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

fredwerk — Sun, 25 Jun 2017 20:14:25 GMT

Cheers for that!

I tried and it worked.

What type of format shall I use for the USB or external USB hard drive? Fat, exFat, etc.

Also any ETA for YouTube HDR?

Finally, trying to view HDR files from my connected PC. I have a PC with Nvidia 1080 TI connected with HDMI cable (very recent one for 4K) to the TV. When I toggle the HDR option in Windows 10 (settings > display) and use VLC or Kodi, the TV does switch to HDR but the videos are not playing in HDR.

Is this a known problem? Am I missing something? I am using same files that you linked to.

Many thanks.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:23:02 GMT

Hi there

exFAT, NTFS should work just fine
ETA unknown for YT HDR (Sony never release their FW update cycle plan unfortunately)
Ensure that your HDMI cable is rated for 18Gbps (or higher). Issues also seen to occur when HDMI cable length is greater than 5 meters too. There is a few threads on these forums about 4K from PCs and HDMI cable length - see HERE, HERE

Cheers

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

fredwerk — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:45:25 GMT

Cheers, my cable is 2 metres long. HDR does get enabled when I manually enable it on Windows 10. But then it seems i get different results when playing a video compared to playing it via USB directly on the TV.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Jecht_Sin — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 12:52:22 GMT

Sorry @Anonymous (and welcome back!! I missed ya! ) but I don't believe it will be necessary an Android update to get a new YouTube client version. The app is in the Google Play Store (same release of ours), Google just needs to update the bleeding thing in there and then it will roll out to all Android TV.. That will be done as soon as the awful deal with Samsung expires, I suppose. Apparently Samsung has got half of a monopoly on HDR by streaming. A couple of Italian streaming services support HDR only on Samsung televisions as well. Sorry for the moaning but this kind of things drive me wild.

Instead, @fredwerk, I would also check that the media players you're using do support HDR. I am not sure how HDR works at system level in Windows 10 (actually it's totally new to me). But if you switch the whole Windows to HDR, and the players do not support HDR, I believe you just end up playing the videos in SDR with the tv forced to HDR. I think your best bet is to try with WIndows Media Player. I mean, if Windows supports HDR, so should do its stock apps do. Or maybe it is a matter of installing the right Codecs. It needs a bit more of investigation. Fortunately I am not an Windows expert, I use a Mac.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Anonymous — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:37:32 GMT

@Jecht_Sin wrote:

Sorry @Anonymous (and welcome back!! I missed ya! )

Awe thanks @Jecht_Sin

You're probably right about the YouTube app thing though, I forgot about what stage the update cycle was on. Although as its one of the built in apps it could work both ways I guess. I didnt know that Samsung has a deal on the HDR streaming - I dont suppose you have a link to that by any chance?

This is certainly what happened with a couple of streaming apps for the UK a couple of years back (ITV Player and ALL4) - they purchased the rights for sole use for a 12 month period at that time. Samsung seems to have a far larger TV budget than Sony. But this purchasing of sole use off rights is infuriating.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Jecht_Sin — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 11:38:41 GMT

You're very welcome, @Anonymous!

So, about the YouTube app: my understanding is that the situation is quite different from the Amazon Video app, for example. The latter should receive an update only through an Android TV (firmware. But I hate to use that term, it isn't correct) update (and so I have been told by the useless Amazon support). While being YouTube in Google Play, there are little reasons for the app not to update as soon as a new version is in there. I think it would be easy to check with TVs still running Lollipop. If they have the option to uninstall the update, one can uninstall it and then see if it gets udated from the store (like Google Movie & C. Those apps do get updated via the store. Not sure if Google Movie supports HDR either, though).

About the Samsung deal.. I don't have any proof, but sure it isn't a concidence that HDR for YouTube only runs on Samsung and Chromecast, that Infinity plays HDR content only on Samsung, Mediaset Premium Play does the same. Also, regarding YouTube, the app for PS4 Pro, which has got quite few updates (4K support included), as far as I am aware does not currently support HDR (at least there is nothing in the update history - I have the standard PS4 so I can't check). And I strongly doubt the PS4 doesn't support the profile vp9.2. I don't know about the Xbone One S, but I doubt it's supported either (also I checked in Google right now, all artciles/posts say it isn't supported).

Then I don't know if it is related to this, but Infinity claimed that HDR would have started rolling out first on Samsung tvs for three months (meaning that after this time more devices were going to support it). That was November 2016. And still now only Samsung does have it. I hope, if there was really any deal, that it hasn't been even extended! And with all partners, of course..

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Kuschelmonschter — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 11:58:56 GMT

The latter should receive an update only through an Android TV (firmware. But I hate to use that term, it isn't correct) update (and so I have been told by the useless Amazon support).

Reason why Amazon Video is not on the Google Play Store is that Amazon would have to pay Google 30% of the revenue made by in-app purchases. Still Amazon Video is not on a lot of Android TV devices so I assume that manufacturers also have to pay Amazon to get the service on their devices. That's the TV business which is ruled by money and contracts.

Same with Apple TV. There Amazon will soon release a Prime-only app though. I would love to see that on Android TV also, with better support and integration than we have today. Amazon app on Android TV is close to not being usable at all.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Jecht_Sin — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:27:00 GMT

Oh, yeah, that interesting @Kuschelmonschter. I totally forgot about the Google Play extorsion. I pay that 30% myself, I make Xperia Themes and 30% is outrageous for the awful service we receive. I mean.. it's 30%!!!

But... no, wait! Amazon Prime is available on Android, though. Without Google Cast, making it not so attractive, but it is still there. I think it has more to do with Amazon having a deal with Sony for the big screens (and anything connected to them. Read: consoles), as you said. Still, it is possible in the Google Play Developer Console to restrict an app to a particular set of devices. The apk is already restricted to run only on Bravia anyway (I've read somewhere it won't work on Nvidia shield). And Amazon has already a deal with Google for the app presence in the store, it shouldn't be a drammatic deal to extend it.

Oh well, their loss. They are just making the luck of apps like Kodi and Plex. And they well deserve that!!

Anyway, I tried to contact the (Italian) Amazon support about the lagging/stuttering issues. What a waste of time. She told me to contact Sony. I had to repeat a dozen times that it is an Amazon app, developed in Amazon, by Amazon developers.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Kuschelmonschter — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 13:55:16 GMT

Amazon Prime is the subscription service, hence no in-app purchases in the form of rentals. That's why it is on Android, iOS and soon tvOS.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

fredwerk — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:05:27 GMT

So NTFS somehow didn't work, however, exFAT did work

While I found no video player playing HDR on Windows 10, I did try with Windows 10 own Media Player and this did work but it did not return as good of a picture than the TV built in Movie app.

For now, I will simply put UHD and HDR movies on my 1.5TB external Hard Drive, and plug this in directly into the TV and use the Movie app from Sony (already included in the TV system).

I found it crazy how HDR is all new and great but there is very little information about how to use it and what to expect from it. I would have expected Sony to give an introduction to it when TV switched on for the 1st time.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:50:02 GMT

Jecht_Sin wrote:

Anyway, I tried to contact the (Italian) Amazon support about the lagging/stuttering issues. What a waste of time. She told me to contact Sony. I had to repeat a dozen times that it is an Amazon app, developed in Amazon, by Amazon developers.

Dont you just love it when companies do that. The blame game I mean. The consumer is stuck in the middle. A few years ago I had that same 'blame game' issue between Amazon (then LoveFilm) and TalkTalk (UK ISP). 9 months later TalkTalk found and corrected a routing problem on their network....

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:56:53 GMT

@fredwerk wrote:

I found it crazy how HDR is all new and great but there is very little information about how to use it and what to expect from it. I would have expected Sony to give an introduction to it when TV switched on for the 1st time.

This is always a problem when new technology comes out. It takes a long time (too long) for everything to catchup and support it. However this is really only a problem for 'higher end users' - the average household still has a 1080p TV and will be so for some time.

In regards to documentation - Sony give the hardware (HDR TV) - but do you expect them to create documentation for Microsoft or Nvidia or.... If an introduction is displayed at first time switch-on from new, im sure someone somewhere will complain... "I just want to watch telly" LOL

Glad exFAT worked. Unsure on why NTFS didnt. Hmmm...

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

fredwerk — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 22:35:25 GMT

The documentation only tells you what button does what, it would be great if it tells you "Hey buddy, do you know your TV has HDR and how you can benefit from it?".

I don't expect them to cover the PC and how this works and so on and what is required. For example, I was wondering "ok so it has HDR, do I need specific discs to watch HDR? Do I need to enable it myself or TV just does it own thing?".

Their is absolutely nothing in the documentation. I googled to get my answers and now I'm here (and thank you very much for your help).

And I'm not the only one having this issue

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Anonymous — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 22:53:03 GMT

@fredwerk wrote:
The documentation only tells you what button does what, it would be great if it tells you "Hey buddy, do you know your TV has HDR and how you can benefit from it?".

I don't expect them to cover the PC and how this works and so on and what is required. For example, I was wondering "ok so it has HDR, do I need specific discs to watch HDR? Do I need to enable it myself or TV just does it own thing?".

Their is absolutely nothing in the documentation. I googled to get my answers and now I'm here (and thank you very much for your help).

And I'm not the only one having this issue

Actually, I fully agree with you on that. It would be handy for Sony to actually state how basically it works and what the benefits are. Proper documentation. I have been constantly badgering Sony on documentation. Just when I think its about to get better - they do disappoint me

Unsure if this is helpful to you, but Sony has created a couple of Blog posts about HDR.

https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/how-tos-faqs-tvs-home-cinema/4k-hdr-what-it-is-and-how-to-get-it/ba-p/2283262

https://community.sony.co.uk/t5/how-tos-faqs-tvs-home-cinema/hdr-technical-info/ba-p/2317193

You're welcome by the way

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Jecht_Sin — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 11:43:04 GMT

Quinnicus wrote:

Dont you just love it when companies do that. The blame game I mean. The consumer is stuck in the middle. A few years ago I had that same 'blame game' issue between Amazon (then LoveFilm) and TalkTalk (UK ISP). 9 months later TalkTalk found and corrected a routing problem on their network....

Yeah!! That was the most favorite hobby in the State office (I mean, the bureaus, how they are called in English): sending people from an office to another untile they enter in a loop! Then people learned the trick and stopped them before starting. Now the corps do it. But to be honest in this case I blame the Amazon representative. She really had no clue of what I was talking about, worst Amazon care experience ever. Usually it is a 10. I've got so many refunds just via chat/phones even keeping the faulty items.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Jecht_Sin — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 11:56:55 GMT

@fredwerk Honestly you can't expect Sony to give out information about how to use the tv as an HDR monitor with Windows 10. That's very OS specific (Windows in this case. I can't manage to make it going into HDR with macOS High Sierra. If that's even possible), as long as the tv shows the HDR logo, as you said it did, it did its job. Still I am puzzled to see how the Windows 10 desktop looks in HDR. I mean, if the colors look brilliant you are doing it right, if they are washed or with a bizarre contrast and awful colors the tv is on HDR, but the desktop isn't rendered in HDR. As you may see there is little info about HDR also because not many system support it. Which is more or less what @Anonymous said.

Instead, without moving HDDs around, I'd suggest you to try with Plex. Right now they just broke the maximum resolution in the Plex client (it was working with UHD/HDR videos), so it will convert the UHD/HDR videos in 1080p, but what you can do is to enable the DLNA service in the Plex server (which must be installed in your PC) and then you can watch the video with the Sony's Video stock app. It works as long as you have both the PC and the tv wired or using the Wifi 5GHz (ac). Otherwise it may buffer being the network too slow with some videos at high bitrate (HDR demos we find around). Plex is cool because it also organises the content in libraries you choose, and builds thumbnails and other stuff of which some appears in the DLNA clients (Sony's Video in this case).

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

fredwerk — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 00:23:21 GMT

Hi,

I am not sure what I should expect from HDR. So far, only a LG 4K HDR demo video played via USB into Sony Video TV app, looks amazing. I played other videos the same way, also via Plex (streaming from my computer), and videos either look pale or pale dark. For example, I played La La Land, the title really popped out (very colourful and bright) however the movie itself is kinda dark and colours not vibrant.

Recently I played Star Wars Battlefront 2 on my PC connected to the TV, HDR mode on. And again, while I can see an increase in detail, the blacks look more grey (hence why I can see details) and colours kinda washed out/pale.

When I disable HDR, with video settings set on Standard (on TV), black are black and colours very colourful.

Does my TV got the wrong video/picture settings? Is the above normal? Am I expecting too much from HDR?

So far, I am not blown away.

Re: 55XE9005 and HDR

Kuschelmonschter — Wed, 06 Dec 2017 05:28:35 GMT

Here is a nice video about HDR.